I don’t think there is anyone that would consider Ken better than Frank. There is nothing Ken could do Frank couldn’t do better.
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Don Frye had no submission ability off his back, imo. His submission reputation is based solely off his judo “black belt”.
My guess is that, at the time, Frye and Severn’s black belts in judo weren’t earned, but given to them when they competed in judo tournaments.
Shamrock was probably one of the top non-BJJ bottom-players of the time based off of his leglock game.
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That’s why Tito took those fights! And he still made a way past his prime, 37 year old Ken cut weight for the first time in his career.
If Tito fought every opponent with the fearlessness he fought Ken with, he’d be the GOAT!
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I think Mark’s best chance would have been to take Ken down and headbutt him into Bolivia. At that point I don’t think Ken had ever fought off his back before in the UFC. It would have been interesting to see
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Ken didn’t have the mic skills to go beyond hardcore champion or whatever. He could play one type of character well and that was it.
People here don’t want to give Jaxxon views either!
37 is a prime age in the light heavy and heavy divisions these days.
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He was about to go for something lol
Not with how Ken’s career went.
Before his fight with Tito he had 3 years as a bonafide performer in the WWE and 2 years in Pride plagued by wars and health/injury issues.
Tito was 27 the first time they fought.
They fight peak vs peak and Ken wins every time. Pretty sure Frank knows it too.
Frank looks like the more dynamic fighter because he is smaller and more agile.
Ken was the more powerful grappler with better leg submissions and better wrestling. Ken probably beats Frank in a kickboxing match too. Frank would “look” better, but Ken would overwhelm him.
P4P doesn’t mean anything to me.
Never has.
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He was about 3 months from being 39 years old.
And it’s not the age it’s the mileage.
Again, people don’t realize the extent of Ken’s injuries. Obviously you are among that group.
Ken and Frank if they were same size? Not sure I could see Ken win that.
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It doesn’t work like that.
You can’t just assume the loss/gain of attributes evens out.
If the big guy gets smaller, he loses strength, power, weight to throw around, and even possibly durability/chin with having a smaller musculoskeletal system.
If the smaller guy gets big, he loses flexibility, speed, agility, to a certain extent cardio, etc.
You have 2 different human beings who have learned to use, fight, train, etc in the body they live in, all their lives. Their strengths and weaknesses as fighters and the way they evolved to play to those strengths has a lot to do with their body types.
This is part of the reason I don’t really buy into the whole P4P thing.
You can have the best middleweight in the world, and that’s great.
but generally speaking he’s not beating the best heavyweight.
I also like to joke that the whole P4P thing is just a concept to make little guys feel better..lol.
Frank is much more decorated in real MMA hence the better fighter. Just cause big bro beats up little bro doesn’t take away all his titles.
The reason behind lb for lb ratings is to distinguish the best in the world. Frank was among them, Ken wasn’t. Not in true mma.
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Wrong.
Ken was the best fighter in the world from the second Royce fight until he went to WWF.
He was pretty much the second best fighter in the world from UFC 1 until he went to WWF.
Plus, Ken made Frank.
So the better Frank is only adds to Ken’s legacy.
I’m a big fan of both guys.
And it’s close.
But Ken gets the nod for doing it first, starting the system that made Frank, and being the more dominant fighter of the 90s.
It’s meaningless.
The best in the world is the guy who can beat the most guys absolute.
Period.
Tank Abbot was correct when he said “Roy Jones Jr. ain’t beating Mike Tyson”.
It’s why guys like GSP and Anderson cannot be the GOATs over Fedor.
It is the simple, inarguable reality of absolute combat, and who would beat who.
Everything else is just manufactured feel good juice.
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bessac absolutely did say ken dominated coleman in training
of course, coleman said the opposite
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