Randleman didnt outstrike him brochacho. He landed one huge punch that wouldve slept anyone in its path.
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So youre saying Cro Cop isnt a very elite striker then?
Yep and even Fedor had to mix in clinch and takedowns to open up those opportunities in the striking.
Thats why i asked him above if he though Mirko is a “very elite striker.”
Because if he wasnt, he wouldve gotten murdered in K-1 amongst absolute titans such as Hoost, Aerts, Hug, Le Banner…K-1 was stacked with killers.
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Not at all. He’s so elite that it doesn’t even count when he gets knocked out.
Lol dont be ridiculous.
I never said any of that. Youre literally taking what someone else said and applying it to me because im arguing that Mirko IS most definitely very elite.
That isnt even up for debate if you look at who he fought during his run in kickboxing.
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Why are you citing a fight over 3 years past Cro Cop’s peak?
This doesn’t mean anything.
Fighters “age” at different rates on a completely unpredictable level.
Basketball isn’t a contact sport where players are potentially taking dozens of bell-ringers and even getting concussed over the course of a career.
You simply cannot measure combat athletes by the same age standards as ball sport athletes.
And this probably goes double for striking only rules with bigger gloves and a standing 8 count.
And if you just look at something like reflex alone, NFL running backs tend to peak in their late 20s.
Obviously the durability of their legs plays a big part in that.
Well for a fighter it’s the durability of his whole body.
Young reflex usually beats learned reflex.
Fighting style has a lot to do with it.
Look at a fighter like Roy Jones Jr.
Once that reflex began to suffer, he got brought down to Earth with the rest of the humans.
For MMA, a guy like Randy Couture would be the opposite. He wanted to clinch, put his opponent against the fence, and grind.
Timing and reflex are less important in those positions. A grappler isn’t trying to react out in space, he can almost feel his way through things.
Look at Mike Tyson.
His issue wasn’t so much wear and tear, it was discipline and substance abuse.
But even before he went to prison at the young age of 24, he had already started to deteriorate in terms of effectiveness.
He was still explosive as hell.
But he also became predictable. More of a head hunter.
Without Jim Jacobs to keep him in line outside the ring – and Kevin Rooney to keep him right on that edge inside the ring – he very suddenly started to look more human.
Carter Williams looked like a contender with a bright future after winning the K-1 USA tournament – with wins over Fujimoto, McDonald, and Rick Roufus.
Fast forward a year or so and 3 bad KOs in 4/5 fights, and he never looked the same.
There are countless examples…
Cro Cop had over 100 boxing and kickboxing fights in a ring before he even started MMA.
He had a ton of mileage by the end of his Pride run, then went to a completely different environment and his career hit a wall.
These things happen.
You simply cannot just look at a fighter’s age in a vacuum and attempt to compare him to other fighters.
When it comes to fightsports, that’s a very flawed logic.
Cro Cop at his peak was mixing it up with powerful HW strikers and fighters in general, and proved himself elite.
Just in MMA, I don’t know that Alex would be beating guys like Josh Barnett or even Heath Herring (who is generally underrated).
In terms of striking…
Bernardo, Greco, Musashi, Aerts, Sefo, Hunt, Sapp, Bonjaski, etc…
You think Alex is running the table vs those guys?
I don’t.
I said I can see it going both ways, and anyone who is 100% certain of the outcome is kidding themselves.
But the guys going hard against Cro Cop in this thread, really don’t seem to grasp the context of both Cro Cop’s successes and failures.
It’s kind of weird.
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Pre 2007 Cro Cop takes Poatan in K1 9 times out of 10
but is close to 50-50-/60-40 either way in MMA
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10,000%
maybe these guys didn’t watch Cro Cop’s greatness live/in the moment like I (we) did
the Absolute Best Cro Cop wouldve still been a top 5 fighter today in the UFC, without a doubt
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BOO! this man!
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Take it back Limbo!!!
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This is an excellent observation that deserves more attention.
Well said.
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Well, I mean, Cro Cop is a past fighter, so I kinda think we have to focus on his past…
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You carefully selected a patch of their careers where they were both 12-2. Poatan lost via submission when he was a grappling rookie. He was transitioning from kickboxing to MMA. He also lost to Israel who is a very elite striker that Poatan also holds a TKO win over.
More than that, let’s look at all of Mirko’s losses where he was out struck, that took place before the age of 33. He was younger than 33 for all of these losses:
He was KOd by Kevin Randleman when Mirko was 29 years old. Out struck by a juiced Hammer House wrestler at 29.
Mirko was out struck by Fedor when Mirko was 30.
Mirko was out struck by Hunt in a close decion loss. Mirko was 31.
Mirko was KO’d by Gabriel Gonzaga. Mirko was 32 years old.
Mirko lost a unanimous decision to Cheick Congo. Mirko was 32 years old.
Mirko has many more losses where he was out struck but he was 35 for the next one, 36 for the next two, and 37 for the one after that. I’m leaving those ones out for now because you guys are saying that his fighting prime was when he was a sperm, and that when he hit the egg he was never quite as good.
I have to say, regardless of when your prime was, tapping out when you’re still fully conscious because someone punched you in the nose and you didn’t like it (JDS), is not a good look for a fighter, particularly one who’s primary skillset is kickboxing. He pulled a No Mas.
Poatan has one submisson loss, early in his MMA career when he was a kickboxer crossing over, and he’s got the one loss to Izzy, who is again, an elite striker. Poatan also has a TKO win over Izzy.
Cro Cop also has the submission loss to Nog. You can put that next to Poatan’s submission loss.
I can’t believe you guys are ignoring the very substantial weight difference. It is a night and day difference. You can argue about their respective skills and abilities all you want, but no way could Poatan beat the MUCH bigger and stronger Cro Cop…
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I think that in Cro Cop’s early Pride days, the days his supporters are calling his best, he was lighter than 220. When he was in the UFC he was much bigger, but Cro Cop’s supporters are saying he wasn’t as good by then.
I just looked it up and Cro Cop was 220 against Fedor. I think he was 5-8 pounds lighter in some of his Pride fights before that.
A quick google search says Poatan weighs close to, or as much as, 230 before a cut.
So, they can fight each other at 220. Same size, more or less.
Or if the 240 pound No Mas version of Cro Cop wants to show up against 220-230 pound Poatan, that’s fine too.
Once again randleman didnt outstrike him, he landed one big punch; just because someone got a KO doesnt automatically mean they outstruck the other person. There have been many fights where someone was getting beaten pillar to post, tyen lands one big punch.
Also, Nog is one of the greatest submission artists of all time. Losing to him in that way doesnt tarnish Mirko’s legacy.
Once again, youre leaving out a lot of context.
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It’s not much different. A striker coming over to MMA and getting subbed by a high level 2003 blackbelt, and a striker coming over to MMA and getting submitted in his first MMA fight by a fighter with a 2015 MMA skillset?
You guys have WAY too much context for Mirko’s duffel bag full of losses. He lost a lot more than Alex and his losses are worse.
Alex lost by submission in his first MMA fight, coming over from kickboxing, and he lost to Israel, whom he’s also beater. That’s much tidier than Mirko’s record, even excluding Mirko’s record past the age of 32.
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Yep, lets name a current heavyweight with a better jiu-jitsu skillset than Nog.
Prime Nog would still be a top 5 fighter in today’s HW division.
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And you dont have enough, context matters.
And once again the level of competition Mirko faced in K-1 automatically dictates that he was elite.
Poatan is my favorite current fighter, but this is a closer match up than you think.
Especially in a ring. As i said, it could go either way in both instances.
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