Ken isn’t the smartest man sometimes. Maybe he does the Ace flop to a leg lock again
2 Likes
Maybe and I do put a lot of stock in what Saulo said. Vaghi never rolled with me because he had chronic back problems but Saulo rolled with everyone and for that time he was probably the best in the world. He also wasn’t under Rickson so there wasn’t a financial incentive for him to lie. I’ve also trained with guys that fought in the ufc and Pride and a ton of fairly high level mma organizations and I have a pretty good real world experience of what the grappling level was in that era of mma. I never met Rickson or Sakuraba but I believe Rickson was a good bit better on the ground. That doesn’t mean he’d win a fight but I like his odds. And I definitely like his odds if he had been 10 years younger. Everyone that criticizes him forgets he was basically around 40 when all this was supposed to happen. Sak was around 30. Night and day difference for fighting.
2 Likes
Rickson may not have beaten Ken Shamrock
1 Like
Wasn’t good compared to anyone in the bjj world at the time.
I don’t want to derail the thread into a Ken thing.
I just think Royce and Rickson are different fights. Not just for Ken. For anyone.
I have some ideas about how things might have gone.
But I certainly don’t pretend to know to the level of making assertions.
1 Like
Wish Rickson tested himself instead of hid behind favorable match ups (Nakai and Funaki withstanding).
4 Likes
Very different because Royce was basically a purple belt with a big heart.
1 Like
Within that realm, I don’t think anybody was.
GJJ was a tighter more methodical method, especially once on the ground.
No doubt.
1 Like
I agree with everything you said except this. If you talk shit back it up. If you say you are the man then prove it. Royce, Renzo. And Royler were less gifted but they fought much better competition
1 Like
Yeah it’s hard to say with any hypothetical matchup. Sakuraba was a little different because we saw him fight multiple guys that were just worse, smaller versions of Rickson. So it’s a little easier to speculate. But the guys you name weren’t good on the ground, they made a career out of being able to take beatings.
Anyone know if Roger and Rickson ever rolled. I’d love to see this or at least hear the description of the session
I never said he shouldn’t back up anything he said. I said he was older and if he’d been younger I’d think he’s a clear favorite instead of a slight favorite. I’m not a huge fan of most Brazilians. Most are full of excuses and shit.
Ok
Rickson would never get Frye to the ground though. On the feet Don would brutalize Rickson .. it would look like Frye/Bitetti
1 Like
Maybe he would beat him standing but Rickson would do more off his back
I have a hard time wrapped my my head around Rickson being a “clear favorite” over Sak in MMA at any age.
Grappling on the mats is one thing.
Competing at the highest level of what was pretty close to full NHB with very skilled and dangerous fighters is another.
IMO, best case for Rickson is a toss-up.
Worse at what though?
Worse BJJ on the mats with zero striking allowed and everyone is wearing a gi and playing by the rules?
Because they certainly weren’t “worse” in terms of actual MMA competition – especially Royce and Renzo.
1 Like
The Rickson zealots are as bad as the Bruce Lee followers. Both didn’t prove themselves but are elevated to GOAT status because of MYTH.
2 Likes
Stuff like this is always cool to read/hear. Both because it speaks to the power of jiu jitsu that Saulo can do that to a much bigger person who also has a solid understanding of jiu jitsu, and also because it speaks to the level that Rickson was on.
1 Like
They were both the best at certain aspects of fighting. They both refined their own technique. They both got more out of their reputation than they would have got out of proving it.
For both of them, a lot of their reputation comes from what pro fighters said they could do behind closed doors in private lessons and sparring sessions.
In the rock paper scissors game of fighting, Gene LeBell’s grappling could neutralize Bruce Lee’s striking.
Rickson got on the mats in non-MMA fights with pretty much everyone of his era that was available, including Mark Shultz, Ron Tripp, Chuck Norris, and a long list of BJJ black belts.
As with Bruce Lee, if someone ever sparred with Rickson, half the questions they get asked are: what was it like to train with the legend.
Nobody ever said they could beat Bruce Lee to the punch, and nobody ever said they tapped Rickson.
1 Like
