That’s also really fucking stupid thing to say. Sullivan was the last heavyweight champion under the London Prize Ring rules and, without doubt, one of the best (and possibly the greatest of all) under those rules.
This is him fighting Kilrain. Does this resemble modern boxing to you? You are literally comparing two different sports… saying Pelé shouldn’t be considered a great of basketball. You’re clueless.
But as a brainlet you can’t compehend that MMA will most likely evolve to different rules and organizations throughout the upcoming centuries, and by all metrics this guy is a complete bum compared to prime RJJ, as Roy was a vastly superior athlete who fought in a much more evolved version of the sport.
The point being is Jon’s name will be likened to a pioneer of a young sport, and one whose GOAT status is already highly contested due to asterisks next to his soiled name.
It’s not heavily contested. Just by you, a person with no credibility or credentials. No offence. I have none either. Jon is regarded by professional fighters and media as the greatest to ever do it. Even Luke Thomas who doesn’t personally like Jon, who considers the asterisks, see’s him as one of if not the best fighter of all time.
Fixed it for you.
And there have been several HWs who would beat him.
Yeah…
The guy who has had 2 HW fights against sub-par competition is going to run the table vs a murderer’s row of all-time HWs..
Makes perfect sense!
2-0 at heavyweight. Gane is ranked number 2 in the division. Sub par? Heavyweight is not a stacked division right now. It’s had better days.
Lesnar, Cain, JDS, overeem was a way better era of heavyweights.
Yes exactly.
I’m not talking about Gane and old Stipe coming off a loss and a 2 year layoff at 44…
I’m talking about the cream of the crop historic HWs.
Jones is deservedly considered the LHW GOAT.
What I take issue with, is people assuming he would beat all of or the majority of historically great HWs.
He wouldn’t even run the table in Pride with their prime LHW’s
I would have loved to see jones fully juiced in the pride era. We can’t blame jones for bad timing. He entered at a time where a lot of the top guys were past their prime and now he’s on his way out.
He murders the lhw division in pride. None of those guys could wrestle. Remember when dc came into strike force and tossed everybody around. Jones is the goat of any era.
The head stomps and soccer kicks would give them a chance against Jon’s wrestling, also wrestling in a ring is more difficult.
The Shogun that Jones beat was a shadow of his former self.
Still a very dangerous fighter, but also a plodder.
Nowhere near the dynamic fighter we saw in Pride.
But we can blame him for avoiding HW until just now.
It was a legacy move.
Even though he was a shadow of himself. The skill differences were so big it’s hard to tell how they would match up in their primes. There were a lot of exciting guys from that era who had kick boxing and bjj skill sets but none of them were as well rounded as Jones.
It’s a weird excuse to say Jon avoided heavyweight. He never had to go up in weight. He did and he’s won there yet people still make excuses. I wonder what the excuse would be if he beat Aspinall. Something tells me guys would find one.
Not saying Shogun would win necessarily.
And ring vs cage is a factor.
But it’s definitely a different fight.
He did avoid it.
Or rather, he waited to move up until the time that was most beneficial to him.
Changing the wording doesn’t alter what he did and when.
Or course he didn’t “have to” move up.
But so many people believing he could beat any fighter at HW…IMO this move doesn’t justify that based on who he’s doubt at HW and what kind of shape they were in.
It’s a legacy move.
He gets to add “HW Champ” to his legacy.
But the actual context of it isn’t that impressive.
It’s not like he’s making a run vs all-time HW killers.
But his fans will act like he did.
I don’t know… he started putting on size to move up originally and fight Francis. One could say Francis’ lack of wrestling would make it an easier match up than Aspinall but Francis doesn’t even need to land clean to turn your lights out. I believe there is something to Tom not being a big enough name for jones to risk losing to. There’s always a risk of losing. I think Jones sees it as a lose, lose for his legacy.
If Tom wins the undisputed title and defends it a few times, there will be more legitimacy to what you guys are on about. But if Tom loses his next fight or two, Jon will be right in his decision not to fight him.
But Jones hasn’t done shit at HW.
