ken refused to do anything in that fight, from dominant position. unimaginable in the modern day. he deserved to lose for that. but Royce did absolutely fuck-all as well. awful fight.
cautionary notes:
Ken gets tapped, eventually.
I’m not sure.. you may have replied but I don’t think I saw it
What else did Ken do in OT besides the right hand?
I’m curious what folks thought that watched it live? Did they think Ken stunk the joint up or perhaps they thought he did a great job by defending against and maybe landing a partial blow to the Gracie Bjj mystique ..? It’s obvious Ken saw it as a win to just survive vs Royce for that long
Shammy should have sprawled and brawled from the get go .. fight like Hackney did at ufc 4 but Ken’s striking was rough at this point
Go to 37 minutes for the OT.
.
Can only speak for myself.
I thought it was a big deal.
Royce had submitted everyone up to that point.
I also found it to be interesting at the time.
I wanted them to let the fight keep going.
But I also wasn’t looking at it from a lense of just pure entertainment value. I was very interested in the way the styles matched up and who proved to be the best.
At the time Royce had proved to be the best.
This fight showed that Ken had at least somewhat figured it out and could put himself in a position to do damage to Royce without getting caught in a submission.
It was really the next fight vs Severn where I felt the torch had been fully passed to Ken as the best of that time.
The Gracie rematch was impressive when you consider all the context that went with it.
But it has to be qualified, especially in hindsight.
The Severn fight was impressive at face value.
And it wasn’t long after the Royce fight. So when looked at together, that point in time was Ken demonstrating that he was the best.
Yeah he lands a hard right and hurts Royce and they go to the ground and Ken lands a few punches but that’s about it. I didn’t see much in the way of aggressive or effective grappling from either in the OT
Just watching that little part just reminds me of how terrible that fight was. I have to imagine 80% of people that bought the ppv thinking to themselves “wtf are we watching here?!” .. I’m a fan of Royce and Ken but damn that was a stinker
Ken had his share of shit fights. He had that fight with Sevren that was dog shit
Ken was high in the guard grinding on Royce.
Some of the crossface stuff was towards the end. He was generally smothering him.
I don’t say it was exciting.
But beyond the punch, Ken was pretty much dominating Royce on the ground in a way that hadn’t occurred up to that point.
If we look at the premise of the thread – and extend the time limit from that point on – what do you see as the most likely result?
That a whole other FRAT lol.
Ken definitely had 3 boring fights in that era.
The Dance In Detroit – I tend to put more on Severn than Ken – under the circumstances.
Severn also had another snoozer wirh Kimo in Pride.
But when looking at these boring Ken fights…
Did he get his ass kicked?
Or was he just positionally superior and held back?
Because there is a big difference between the two.
In terms of demonstrated ability relative to the competition at the time – Ken proved himself.
Unfortunately, it was not always as exciting as we wanted it to be.
I saw that too but it just failed to move or impress me ..
Sure if the fight continued from that point on then yes Ken wpuld win but had they never stood the fight up after regulation(which they wouldn’t in a no time limit fight) then it most likely ends in a draw. Nothing was happening at the end of regulation
The majority of the history of MMA had rounds.
This fight was an early GJJ outlier.
But what’s somewhat ironic about it – is that the Gracie’s preference was no time limit !!
So the exact rules that they have preached for all these years, would have worked against Royce in this particular fight.
Being “impressed” is relative.
For that specific point in time, bigger guys than Ken had failed to beat Royce.
So it’s more a matter of “leveling-up” than it is making an exciting fight, IMO.
Did you watch it around the time it happened?
I disagree with this.
At some point Ken would have worked his way higher In the guard.
It just would have taken longer.
Royce never threatened with a submission, so it was just a matter of time.
Ken was basically beating the Gracie’s at their own game.
It just doesn’t resonate as much because Royce was the physical underdog.
Yet, he was the physical underdog in most of his fights.
I watched it a year or two after it happened - I didn’t understand the gravity of the fight until later on when I rented the first few ufcs ..
32 million people have watched that dreadful fight - just goes to show you how impactful that fight was . I just hate that it went that way because it caused the Gracie’s to stop fighting and Ken went on to fight in a few more god awful ‘super fights’..
Simply put Ken Shamrock never deserved to be in the super fight with Royce to begin with .. what did he do to qualify for it? His last appearance was bowing out at ufc 3 after struggling with Felix Lee Mitchell ..
Very strongly disagree with this.
Also the result of the fight proved he deserved it.
And his next Superfight against reigning tournament champion Dan Severn – and Ken beat Severn even faster than Coleman did.
He obviously deserved to be there – and the Superfight belt was absorbed into the HW belt, because the UFC would rightfully get away from the tournament format and into single fights like most prize fighting.
Also, Ken didn’t “struggle” with Felix lol.
That’s an often parroted talking point.
He was fighting with a knee injury and took a little time taking him down, while receiving no damage in the process.
Ken was one of the most active and dominant fighters of the 90s – and for a time was the best.
Suggesting that he didn’t “deserve” any fight, is completely disconnected from the reality of his skills and resume in that era.
Much respect to Royce in this fight. He definitely showed a lot of heart. Ken stayed in the dominant position the entire time and really did a lot of damage to him, working and grinding him down. Brilliant game plan. Staying out of submissions and imposing his will physically in this one for a half hour. With no time limit this eventually ends with a towel being thrown from Royce’s corner or a submission from exhaustion. Just my opinion.
I remember thinking the small guy survived the big steroided monster for over half an hour. I have to learn this.
Ken outweighed him pretty substantially and layed and prayed for half an hour. It’s hard for me to say he was so much better than Royce. I don’t think Ken was as technical as Royce and I think the 3rd fight fiasco highlighted that.
Either way, I wouldn’t want to fight either one. Why was there an overtime anyway? IIRC the fight was supposed to go 30 minutes and that was it.
Then it seems they just make up some OT BS on the spot. Maybe I am wrong on that. I think the OT was improvised. Reminds me of UFC 1 when the ref intervened during the first fight.
I think Ken looked his best in Pride fighting Fujita. Then all of a sudden he gassed or something and lost. The first few minutes of that fight I thought he was at his best.
Ken said in an interview on WWF magazine that he was pissing red after the fight and was almost ready to have Petey throw in the towel.
I don’t think you can argue that a fighter ‘deserved’ a super fight by looking at what said fighter did in the fights that took place AFTER the super fight .. you have to examine his fights leading up to the super fight which in Ken’s case would be ufc 1 & 3
No one is doubting Ken was a great fighter especially in that era - I personally don’t think he ever met the actual hype though in the cage - he just was never able to consistently shine out there..
I just think only tournament winners should have qualified for a “super fight”.. you gotta admit, Ken should have won at least one of those early tournaments but he didn’t..
Knee injury or not, he should have finished Mitchell faster .. we are talking about a guy(Felix) with basically no ground game at all ..
