sorry, but no.
i do not lean on my own (made-up) understanding, but on GOD’s alone.
Garbage…and dishonest garbage.
You can’t just go around inventing your own definitions…
Well, you can, but you’ll be committing a strawman fallacy…and everyone will think you’re a dick.
Ahhhh … you’re failing on first principle there…
First you’d have to prove that your god actually exists.
As an OG brother let me help you by saving you a lot of time: your god doesn’t exist.
You just did.
1 Like
Lol no…Jesus wept at the dumbness of his gimps.
1 Like
They are making it into something that it clearly is not. And ignoring rules that clearly exist.
1 Like
Well shucks, I guess that settles it.
2 Likes
Judaism in its entirety revolves around pagan mythology.
2 Likes
No it wouldn’t be the ‘no True Scotsman’ fallacy… the mistake would have been in your spin of his statement…“replacing” with other ideologies has nothing to do with a gay person who believes in Jesus…
He’s talking about ideology. you are talking about individual people. Categorical fallacy… try again… and post your lil clown emoji, cowgirl… you’re spent…
It would be better to say it was an aphorism that is often attributed to him. He may have said it and had it passed on by his confreres, but the exact phrase, along with “I want my attorney, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God, and I think that then I shall be robbed and cuckolded less often”, which has also been attributed to Napoleon, does not appear in his written work (hence, “said”, not “wrote”).
There’s little doubt that the sentiment aligned with his beliefs, though. Voltaire was a deist, believing that God created the universe, not an atheist, and didn’t care for the dogma of the Church - but he believed that religion and a belief in God was essential to a happy society. You can see this in a work that he definitely wrote in 1770 inresponse to an anonymous atheist tract, “The Three Imposters” (which challenged the legitimacy of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam by arguing that their founders (Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad, respectively) were imposters). He also discredited the argument that God should be blamed for the evils that man commits, or fails to prevent:
Epistle (to the author of The Three Impostors)
Insipid writer, you pretend to draw for your readers
The portraits of your 3 impostors;
How is it that, witlessly, you have become the fourth?
Why, poor enemy of the supreme essence,
Do you confuse Mohammed and the Creator,
And the deeds of man with God, his author?…
Criticize the servant, but respect the master.
God should not suffer for the stupidity of the priest:
Let us recognize this God, although he is poorly served.
My lodging is filled with lizards and rats;
But the architect exists, and anyone who denies it
Is touched with madness under the guise of wisdom.
Consult Zoroaster, and Minos, and Solon,
And the martyr Socrates, and the great Cicero:
They all adored a master, a judge, a father.
This sublime system is necessary to man.
It is the sacred tie that binds society,
The first foundation of holy equity,
The bridle to the wicked, the hope of the just.
If the heavens, stripped of his noble imprint,
Could ever cease to attest to his being,
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
Let the wise man announce him and kings fear him.
Kings, if you oppress me, if your eminencies disdain
The tears of the innocent that you cause to flow,
My avenger is in the heavens: learn to tremble.
Such, at least, is the fruit of a useful creed.
But you, faulty logician, whose sad foolishness
Dares to reassure them in the path of crime,
What fruit do you expect to reap from your fine arguments?
Will your children be more obedient to your voice?
Your friends, at time of need, more useful and reliable?
Your wife more honest? and your new renter,
For not believing in God, will he pay you better?
Alas! let’s leave intact human belief in fear and hope.
In vain you raise as an objection to me the hypocritical insolence
Of these proud charlatans promoted to high honors,
Nourished by our work, quenched by our tears;
Of these Caesars tainted by their usurped grandeur;
A priest on the Capitoline hill where Pompea triumphed;
Of these wretches in sandals, the excrement of humanity,
Soaking there detestable hands in our blood;
At the sound of their voice a hundred towns are covered in ruins,
And the horrible matins of bloodied Paris:
I know these awful monuments better than you;
I have unmasked them with my pen for the past fifty years.
But, as the fearsome enemy of this fanaticism,
I have also celebrated God when the devil was vanquished.
I always distinguished between religion
And the misery bred of superstition.
Europe has thanked me; twenty crowned heads
Have deigned to applaud the fortunate labors of my nights,
While Patouillet was insulting me in vain.
I have done more in my time than Luther and Calvin.
They were seen opposing, in a fatal error,
Abuses with abuses, scandal with scandal.
Eager to throw themselves amidst the factions,
They condemned the pope and wanted to imitate him.
Europe was long desolated by them all;
They troubled the earth, and I have consoled it.
I have told the disputants, hounding one another:
“Cease, impertinent ones, cease, unfortunate ones;
Foolish children of God, cherish yourselves in your brothers,
And stop biting one another for absurd chimeras.”
Good people have believed me: the evil ones, crushed,
Have hurled cries that are scorned by the wise man;
And in Europe, finally, happy toleration
Has become the catechism of all well made souls.
I see from afar that era coming, those happy days,
When philosophy, enlightening humanity,
Must lead them in peace to the feet of the common master;
Frightful fanaticism will tremble to appear there:
There will be less dogma with more virtue.
If someone wants to assume an official position,
He will no longer bring along two witnesses [2]
To testify to his beliefs; rather they will swear to his good conduct.
A Huguenot lover will be able to marry
The attractive sister of an important cleric;
We will see poverty clothed and nourished
With the treasures of the Loretto, amassed for Mary;
The children of Sarah, whom we treat like dogs,
Will eat ham that has been cured by Christians.
The Turk, without asking whether the imam will pardon him,
Will go drink with the abbé Tamponet at the Sorbonne. [3]
My nephews will dine gaily and with no ill will
With the descendants of the Pompignan brothers;
They will be able to pardon this harsh La Blétrie [4]
For having cut short the course of my life.
We will see a reunion of the finest minds:
But who will ever be able to bear dining with Fréron?
Translated by: Jack Iverson
…
Voltaire’s Notes
[1] This book of the Three Imposters is a very dangerous work, full of coarse atheism, without wit and devoid of philosophy.
[2] In France, in order to be accepted as procurer, notary, clerk, one needs two witnesses who confirm the Catholicism of the recipient.
[3] Tamponet was, in fact, a doctor at the Sorbonne.
[4] La Bletterie, as I have been told, has stated in print that I have forgotten to have myself buried. © by owner. provided at no charge for educational purposes
This is pure living in a vacuum… would be great if any atheists actually lived this way. But 99% don’t these days. In the real world, what you have set forth above is simply a rhetoric defense: the new atheist’s escape hatch from actually having to defend their views. Sorry.
No one… not even you interacts like you describe on threads .. “I don’t believe you” and then moves along… doesn’t happen… They don’t even say that… they say ‘Prove it’ in order to set themselves up as the ‘standard of approval’ and then say ‘nope, you didn’t’ and almost always engage in counterpoints about ‘why not’…
Atheism in practicality is not without-theism 99% of the time… it has (long ago) turned into its OWN ‘ism’ atheISM… the word has changed meaning.
Your performance here, and in most religious threads, exemplifies this.
1 Like
And many simply are anti-theists - angry that Christian belief might condemn them to a Hell the very existence of which they deny.
There are a few good books and a number of interesting studies on the ‘psychology of atheism’… very interesting to read, because they ‘flip the script’ so to speak on framing.
But I don’t assume from the get-go that any person is an ‘anti-theist’… and most folks that turn out to be are so for almost purely political/ideological reasons, both right and left (incl. Hitchens when u deconstruct his views), even when they argue about the ‘evil of religion’… Dawkins a bit different - scientistic worldview with a big dash of inept grasp of basic philosophy… and his ‘anti-theism’ seems to be evolving anyway, from a cultural values perspective…
Uhhh. Okay.
I’m an atheist first of all.
Second. You sound like you came in ready to argue. I really don’t give a fuck or have time to argue with idiots on the internet all day.
The simple fact that some people bastardize something does change the thing.
1 Like
My response was to the last post, from Funkystuff, not directly to you… but sorry if it offended you.
There are plenty of gay folks who have tried to be Christian without changing the theology… You can’t put everyone into a box. What is the standard Anglican teaching on homosexuals participating in the church? Lutheran? Catholic?.. Hint: it’s not to burn them at the stake..
Replacing Christianity are Feminism and LGBTQLMNOP.
And my point was, put ‘Christianity’ to the side.. these identity-based ideologies are basically their own religion anyway (from a sociological perspective)… i.e., ‘replacing’… think…
I really don’t give a fuck or have time to argue with idiots on the internet all day.
No one forced you to, lol… feel free to shit out a post and leave it… all good.
Then what countries are NOT atheist? Not USA… some of the Islamist countries and maybe India?.. if the vast majority of countries by this definition are atheist anyway, then the whole statement that ‘atheist countries are happier’ ends up meaning NOTHING. It’s an empty, vacuous point… lulz…
Thanks for coming full circle with this pointless definition.. lmao… what a waste of time…
By this definition, we can also say: ‘Atheist countries are the most unhappy countries’… wow…
1 Like
Most interesting statistic regarding the whole ‘atheist countries are the happiest’ (forget who made that point) that you dove into (VERY deeply) is the fact that those ‘atheist’ countries at the top of the UN Happiness Ratings also have higher than average (and a couple very high) DEPRESSION rates… really makes you wonder what the UN thinks ‘happiness’ is…
Some people are agnostic, some are atheists and then some HATE God and get angry at anyone that does.
I have some advice for the third person. Do some self reflection. Your hatred of God, Christianity, The Bible and whatever else is your problem. Ask yourself where it really comes from?
It typically comes a very selfish, self centered place.
Getting angry, calling names, projecting, assuming, insinuating, etc isn’t a good look and you will NEVER really get your point across.
Conversely, as a Catholic, I know trying to convince these people otherwise is futile. It’s isn’t worth the effort. They’ll either find God when it’s right for them, or they won’t.
I had a friend who after many years of knowing each other found out I was Catholic. I never had reason to tell him before. It was lent and I ordered fish at a steak joint and he asked why. For the next hour he proceeded to berate me, question me, insult me and laugh at me. I barely put up a fight. I literally saw his face change. He had hatred in his eyes. I realized he’s struggling with something and kept quiet. I realized he wasn’t trying to argue with me, he was reaffirming his beliefs to himself and justifying why he’s the way he is. It was his struggle. Not mine.
Fig, over and out
3 Likes