I saw this episode, it was very entertaining
1 Like
Iâm kind of in the middle here as I donât love or hate Rickson - These events were pretty underground during the 70s and 80s, at the very least. They didnât have sanctioning, there were no recordkeepers, just 2 fighters, a crowd, and a ref. They took place in places like small gymnasiums. The only known footage of them is shaky camcorder tapes.
Between the 1920s-1960s the âDesafioâ events were a lot more mainstream, which was the period that Carlson was fighting. But even in a more âofficialâ capacity, I wouldnât expect these to have been thoroughly documented. Sometime in the 60s Joao Barreto got a Luta Livre guy in an armbar, he refused to tap, so he broke his arm. Pro wrestling then became the main form of combat entertainment in Brazil.
To get a better idea of the context, you have to understand the fighting scene in places like Curitiba, Bahia and Rio throughout the 20th century. You had a bunch of martial artists training in different styles, some of those styles native to Brazil. Up until maybe the 80s, these guys were very dogmatic about their discipline, and most of them did not cross-train. So until 1995-1996, NHB did not exist in a professional capacity, and these fighting styles were not being represented on television. Thatâs why if you look at any Brazilian fighterâs official record, if they fought in Brazil before 1995, the promotion is listed as âBrazilian Regionalâ. If you look at early Brazilian guys, a lot of them fought in the US and/or Japan in the 90s.
So when it comes to organizing âfightâ events, it had to be done independently in a way that limited outside knowledge of it. These guys werenât fighting to have a good record or even be the best fighter, they were fighting to represent their region, to represent their style, and to present their region/style as superior to all others.
Have you heard about underground fighting in cities like San Francisco? I read about these in the late 80 and early 90s before the ufc. No weight classes, different arts. I read about a 220 pound Aikido guy that was beating a lot of guys until he met a 150 pound boxer, no joke
If (and massively big IF there) Ricksonâs claims are anywhere near true, I wouldnât be surprised if some of those reported fights were simple streetfights. Iâm talking âguy talked shit to him, he slapped the guy one, they got separated,â etc.
Reading Ricksonâs book, he was NOT a nice guy as a kid, he was constantly picking fights with randos and beating their asses to one degree or another, and even by his own admission it sounded like very few of them were actually justified.
1 Like
I heard Relson was the street fight king and he was very mean, well king of the Gracieâs in street fighting
1 Like
In San Francisco, no. Are you fucking around or being serious? If serious Iâd love to find out more.
Iâm sure there was underground fighting in the states but donât know the extent of it and how far it goes back, outside of dojo challenges.
The only event I know of that existed in a somewhat professional capacity is the Tough Guy Contest from 1980 in Pennsylvania. Apparently one of the owners wrote an entire set of rules. There were rounds, judges, headgear, and open fingered gloves. It was not sanctioned, as kickboxing sanctioning didnât even begin here until 1983.
But I donât know of any footage.
I legit read this, but Iâm sure it was other places. It seemed like a gentleman sort of thing. Guys wanting to see who the better man was but no one really trying to hurt anyone more than necessary
1 Like
I wonder if any of our guys here from California heard about this when they were coming up on the scene in the late 90s? Sure LA and surrounding areas are not close to SF but maybe they heard rumors.
Iâd love to watch some shitty video of it. It was highly illegal and the people fighting didnât seem like the criminal type. Sounded like professionals that wanted to test themselves in a realistic but safe environment. Everything was by invite only
1 Like
Rafiel Torre probably knows!
I also heard about mystical fighter in San Francisco. A friend who wasnât a bullshitter told me about a Chinese master. He said he instructed the class to sneak up behind him whenever they wanted and try and hit him during the seminar, many tried and he wasnât hit.
I have heard many of these accounts from people I trust or trained with, but I have never seen it with my own eyes.
I believe this stuff is possible but I never saw it
I found that the first known Toughman Contest started in 1979 in Michigan, right at the time Tough Guy Contest event was getting started in PA. Crazy how the same thing can be happening hundreds or thousands of miles apart with zero knowledge of it.
Are you from SF?
My BJJ friend said he felt the dim mak in person. A guy swiped his face with a claw motion without touching him. He felt his face get paralyzed. The master told him he would soon get worse and have permanent paralysis. He told the guy to fix it and the guy did pressure points or something.
Was it real? Was in a powerful suggestion placebo? I donât know. The guy was a legit BJJ black belt though
1 Like
No, Hawaii
Donât know why these stories were there, purely coincidence.
I am not trolling on these stories. I believe them to be true. It is so unfortunate that we have scammers and charlatans spreading bullshito. Some TMA is beautiful and useful
1 Like
Old friend of mine who is no longer with us did one in SF.
Funny enough he also had a small part in a fight scene in the movie Lion Heart.
Not kidding.
Can you elaborate more?
âSafeâ other than the concrete I guess..
I wouldnât go into any situation involving money changing hands without backup.
1 Like
Speaking of Hawaii..
Ever hear any stories of Kajukenbo and The Black Belt Society?
Adriano Emperado?