I originally had written something about the floor being higher but not the ceiling but it looks like I removed it. I think you’re right.
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It depends on the weight class. I think what you’re saying becomes more true as the weight increases. I don’t think it’s true at all for say, 125 through 145. Those divisions are just better now. 155 is debatable. 170 is about the same, I think GSP would be champ, but some of the top fighters there are more well rounded. 185 and up hasn’t improved. 185 and 205 have declined and heavyweight is an absolutely terrible division, probably the worst it has ever been. I wish that wasn’t true.
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Those used to be the baddest men on the planet. Now they’re the baddest men in the orginization 
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We just saw an Olympic TKD medalist in the UFC. That Cuban guy who was recently cut. But if you’re limiting it to guys who were super elite in TKD competition, of course you’re not going to see many of them. They will be too late to MMA, not have the skills to compete in other areas, and get ran out like that guy did.
Better examples are guys like Yair Rodriguez. He’s a legit TKD stylist who is competing at a high level in MMA today. When was there ever any in the past?
Same thing with Judo. (We won’t count Kayla and WMMA). If you’re looking for guys to win Judo medals and then start an MMA career at 30, it’s probably not going to go well. They will be too late. But if you’re looking for guys who use judo, look no further than Khabib who was essentially a wrestling/judo stylist.
Let’s look at a top division from let’s say 15 years ago…
Where’s the stylistic variety that you guys are suggesting there was? It’s the all-around GOAT, then wrestler after wrestler after wrestler, one Muay Thai guy and a couple of basic ass strikers.
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Most of the negative things about todays product are pretty much inevitable side effects of the sports growth imo. On a technical level things were always going to lead to fighters having a more homogenized skillset, and in turn as everyone gets more well rounded with less holes in their game the finish rate declines so it becomes less exciting to watch.
Then on a commercial level - the oversaturation. No way was the UFC gonna stay at like 10-20 cards a year once the suits realised the value of it and got their hands all over it. They had to milk it to breaking point. Obviously the presentation nowadays feels generic too because its dictated by focus groups and shit - the music they use etc. You know for a fucking fact they had meetings about the use of cheesy metal music etc etc and pushed for it to be axed. Same with how they got rid of the Gladiator intros and the names for events (Relentless, Throwdown etc etc) presumably all because they wanted to clean up MMAs image of being for white dudes/rednecks and it association with pro wrestling to make it seem like a more “legit” sport.
Those of us that got to live through the peak were lucky, but the horse has bolted and it can never come back, sadly. MMA is just another accepted mainstream pro sport now, for better or worse. Its ironic because back in the day thats what most of us wanted, be careful what you wish for I guess.
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Stopped watching TUF years ago when it just became another boring reality ‘cooking’ show (sans all the drinking, fighting, cursing…etc).
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Would love to see a universe where Pride became the dominant worldwide organisation and not the pussy unified rules UFC.
I have a feeling in that Universe in 2024 almost no-one is talking about how they are bored of MMA and how Pride isn’t really fighting anymore.
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We should have fighting like the ancient greeks???!!!
That should sell more tickets, and keep you riveted to the screen???!!
Yeah I had a friend ask me if I watched TUF 33 with Shev / Grasso, nope!
I think I tapped out at TUF 9 or 10.
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I sill watch TUF, but I fast forward to the bouts and skip the drama.
This is one of my favorite gifs. I gave up on sport grappling because of stuff like this. People are inventing entire systems that are useful only under the sport rules but are entirely impractical for self defense.
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Me too, I still grapple occasionally just to try not to lose it all. Smash n pass!
I used to be a big fan of UFC and mma.
I have not watched UFC for awhile.
I like bareknuckle boxing and real boxing.
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It’s watered down, for sure but there are still great fights going down, just have to typically wade through a lot of uninteresting fights. There are lots of alternative orgs if you want more “NHB” type of fights; bareknuckle & headbutts allowed etc.
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Well I didn’t say they had to be at the top of the division, but sure. Funny you posted that though, because GSP is a Kyokushin specialist. Alves wasn’t a Muay Thai fighter but leaned very heavily on MT, as that’s where he started.
Both Swick and Hardy started in Taekwondo as kids, as well as other TMAs. Hardy is a black belt in TKD. Serra was a jiu jitsu specialist who started striking proficiently. Paulo Thiago was a black belt judoka. The others were wrestlers (which is a specialty, albeit a very common one in MMA, so we can ignore those for this argument).
Using the same logic I just used for the list you provided, let’s look at today’s 170 rankings:
Since we’re ignoring wrestlers for now, let’s remove Belal, Colby, Usman, Shavkat (I know Sambo is not the same as wrestling), and Brady. That leaves Leon, Buckley, Garry, JDM, and Burns. Leon started training in MMA as a teen and has no specialty or TMA experience. JDM started training boxing as a teenager but I don’t know how long he did it before he started mixing things together. Buckley started wrestling in high school and then MMA after he graduated, but I can’t find anything else on him, doesn’t look like he has a specialty. Garry is apparently a black belt in judo, I had no idea. So I guess he’s a specialist who doesn’t use it. Burns is a BJJ guy.
That’s obviously just 10 fighters out of thousands. But aside from wrestlers now, there don’t seem to be as many specialists. It’s also not just about specialty in terms of skill, it also has to do with the confidence from mastering one specific discipline, and the freedom that confidence gives you to fully express yourself in a fight.
Look at the sort of techniques we see from guys like Wonderboy or Adesanya. Although Izzy isn’t black belt level, he started in Taekwondo, and he uses a lot of TKD techniques. Wonderboy comes from Kenpo, and both of these incorporate TMA along with Muay Thai and boxing into their games really well.
Most of the regular “MMA trained” guys now wouldn’t train a specific art in a vacuum because they are too worried about falling behind in wrestling or grappling. They also wouldn’t train a specific technique, like say an axe kick, or question mark kick, because they simply don’t have the confidence in their striking to think they could pull something like that off.
There are many ways this conversation can go and a lot of variables, but ultimately having a specialty and training one particular discipline when you’re young for a decent amount of time can help to shape your style and develop into a full expression of your fighting language. Izzy and Wonderboy are obviously two current examples of exceptions to the rule. It definitely feels like a lot of fighters now train to have their striking or wrestling “just good enough”. I’m obviously partial to striking so that’s what I pay attention to the most.
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Thanks for articulating what my brain struggled to.
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It’s funny you posted the top 10 from GSPs era because GSP is the perfect example of how mastering one thing can benefit you as an athlete and person. He is obviously an exceptional athlete and once in a lifetime fighter. But look at how he took the same focus and discipline he used to learn Kyokushin, and applied it to wrestling. You don’t learn a skill like wrestling that late in life without having the confidence of having mastered another very difficult skill.
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You often articulate what I can either so I feel like we just fill in the gaps for each other 
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Chaps like Carlos Newton were so exciting back in the day because they showed the potential of what MMA would evolve into where Fighters would Display Athleticism and Creativity and that MMA would evolve beyond Ground Hugging into something more Active and Exciting Spectator Friendly where Striking once again became a Valid Element of Martial Art SkillSet
…but of course there was something unique about early MMA and to be a part of that spectacle and now it is more of a Generic Contest of Jack-of-All-Trades Compeitors which loses some of the excitement of an Igor Vovchanchyn vs Mark Kerr
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Yup. Sakuraba is a good example of somebody who came from wrestling but incorporated a lot of new techniques into his ground and striking game throughout the years.
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